****New information added Sep., 15, 2007:
Obviously gathering information is a slow, but ongoing process.... however:
Gary Pond has recently presented me with some great information he managed to find through Google searches etc...
First, from this source: http://archives.gnb.ca/APPS/NewspaperVitalStats/Details.aspx?L=EN&guid=19973962-fa38-4974-9bba-c44474446661&ni=71037
...we can read the following:
"Date : October 27, 1884
County : Saint John
Place : Saint John
Newspaper : The Daily Telegraph
The language of the text is the original used in the newspaper entry and as transcribed by Daniel F. Johnson. Records acquired by the Provincial Archives are not translated from the language in which they originate.
The following depatch dated Oct. 23rd from Quincy, Mass. to the Boston 'Globe' reads: In St. John'c church yesterday, T.J. CRONIN, merchant of Saint John, N.B. was married to Eliabeth McGRATH d/o John McGRATH, well known Quincy quarreyman. The groomsman was Mr. O'BRIEN of Saint John and the bridesmaid, Miss Nellie C. DUTCH, Jersey City."
...also, from this source: http://data6.archives.ca/exec/getSID.pl?f=z001/z000029361&cat=z&X110=2869&p=1&l=e
we can view a copy of a page of the New Brunswick 1901 census:
So now we can see T.J.'s date of birth, as well as those of all his children. Thanks very much to Gary Pond for that!
I'll include a picture he found of T.J.'s Bar in St. John as well:
A few words on spelling,
I've been hunting again and not finding much, other than some other people are asking the same questions... Here's a couple examples of what I've come across:
This from a geneology forum:
"Posted by: timothy cronin (ID *****6269) Date: January 24, 2004 at 08:11:18
In Reply to: Alternative spellings: Croneen, O'Cronin, O'Croinin by Brian Cronin of 1041
Brian, based on my personal research the spelling O'Cronin according to the book written by Daniel Cronin on the Michael Cronin and Pricillah Pulley Lines had originated from County Cork, Ireland
in the mid 1700's however, there has not been any documents that show the name change that I have been able to locate, including his research for his book.
I went through every single census book for every state in the U.S. writing down every single name from 1700's thru 1880 except New York with the various spellings ie: Cronin, Cronan, Cronen, Cronon.
What I discovered was no O'Cronin and only a hand full prior to 1860 with a different spelling than Cronin. The first Cronan spelling that I came across was the Children of a Cronin had changed their
spelling in 1860 to Cronan. After 1860 there began to show up more Cronan's with birth place showing Ireland. I only came across one Cronin from England and one from France all the rest were from Ireland."
... and this bit from a family page from some folks named "Cronen":
"Our name was originally spelled CRONIN and is one of the most numerous surnames in Ireland. Years ago, CRONIN was prefixed with O' and was spelled O'CROININ. Later it was spelled
O'CRONIN. In Ireland in the year 1659, O'CRONIN was recorded as a principal name in County Limerick (barony of Connello) and County Kerry (barony of Magunihy) as well as in two baronies of County Cork.
The surname CRONIN is derived from the word cron, meaning saffron (orange-yellow) colored. A leading family of O'CRONIN were trustees or managers of a church near Gougane Barra. CRONEEN was another common
spelling of the name. CRONAN is another variation. The CRONIN clan is supposed to have descended from a third century Irish King named Lughaidh Laide."
...And just to make you all feel a little better, here's some evidence that there is good reason for our puzzlement over the origin and correct spelling of the name:
from this site: http://www.shannon-fishery-board.ie/catchment/croneen-story.htm , where the author is puzzling over the
origin of the name of a trout named the "Croneen",
I've taken the following snippit:
"Where did the word Croneen originate?
An interesting aspect to the Croneen story is the origin of the name. We have searched widely to try and get an explanation on the origin of the name of the fish. One line of enquiries suggests that the name come from the Irish, Cronín, meaning the little brown or yellow one. Indeed we contacted Dr. Michael Kennedy, formerly of the Inland Fisheries Trust and he said that they had assumed it had something to do with the colour of the fish. This may indeed refer to the fish in spawning condition, which would be a dull brown. However during the main run the fish are definitely silver. So is this really the origin. Maybe the fish were only accessible to the local Gaelic speakers over their spawning beds. This is quite probable, as other fish such as salmon were often taken in this manner. However another likely explanation is that the Croneen was infact named after a person. Croneen is infact the Gaelic version of Cronin. The name Croneen was very common in parts of Cork and there was even a place called Croneenstown."
[This page in it's original state now follows],
I've been attempting to get as much information as I can on our collective ancestry from the Cronin side of the tree... I've run into too many dead ends. It seems that at some point many records from the Parish of Bantry (and others) were moved for protection, only to be lost in a fire. It is possible that is part of the reason it is proving a little less than easy to uncover our roots. There is much that can be learned from the internet through strategic searches, as many folks have compiled a lot of data. In time, I think we'll get the answers.
The first questions I have (and please understand that I'm aware that I may be way off on any of my guesses/assumptions and I hope you'll point my errors out to me, in fact, that is the whole purpose of writing this and calling your attention to it.), are :
1: When was Timothy J. Cronin born? - if the date I have on the front page is accurate, where did that information come from?
2: Is the Baptismal Certificate we have for "Timothy Croneen" referring to the same Timothy J. Cronin who was the father of Leonard Timothy? And how, in fact, do we know his name was Timothy John Cronin? Not that I'm doubting that, but if his Baptismal certificate lists him simply as "Timothy Croneen", we're missing some information...(for example, when did he change his name?) provided, of course, this is his baptismal certificate!
If the date of Jan., 28th, 1841 is correct, then what's with this?: The copy of the information from the New Brunswick archives below, lists him at age 64 when he died in 1904, (the same date of death that we had, for him, yet he would have just turned 65 if both dates were correct.) yet the baptismal certificate has that gentleman being baptised in Feb., 1839. Another question: what reason does someone have for requesting the certificate in 1898 (5th of Sep.) (Or, was that 1998 [no ammount of fiddling with the graphic has made that clear to me] and if it was 1998, then that would make me suspicious of the entire document since it was all written then.) and who were: "Sponsors Timothy Croneen and Johanna Casey". ?
I found the following on this site: http://www.gnb.ca/archives/ols/ols.asp
RS141A2/2 - Index to County Birth Registers
Detailed Record for: CRONIN, LEONARD TIMOTHY
Father: CRONIN, TIMOTHY
Mother: MCGRATH, ELIZABETH
Place: SAINT JOHN
RS315A - Index to Saint John Burial Permits
Detailed Record for: CRONIN, TIMOTHY J.
Date of Death:
Place of Birth: IRELAND
NB County of Birth: --
In my searches (granted, not very extensive as yet), I've found occasional references to a "Hurley" married to "Cronin" Here's one example from this site: http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnichols/fams/c_dfam.htm..... .These people may be totaly unrelated, but who knows? Maybe Denis had a brother that married Johanna's sister? Although, on the same site, if I look up "Jeremiah Cronin" I see two of his children married Hurley's but niether of them were Denis or Johanna.
I don't know how to find the answers to these questions for free yet:
Family Group Sheet for
Daniel CRONIN (1825-1882)
Mary HURLEY (1825-1882)
b 1 Oct 1825Inchigeelagh Parish, Cork, Co. Cork, IRL
d 21 Sep 1882Lake Geneva, Walworth Co., WI
burWalworth Co., WI
Occupation:Railroad employee; farmer?
Father:Jeremiah CRONIN (ca 1797-)
Family Group Sheet
Mother:Mary McCARTHY (ca 1805-)
m ca 1856IN?
b 14 Jul 1837Inchigeelagh Parish, Cork, Co. Cork, IRL
d 2 Oct 1875Lake Geneva, Walworth Co., WI
My hope is that this site will remain for many years to come, and perhaps at some point,
one of the next generation will be maintaining it... I think it can provide a source of unification
for our extended family; in an age where it has become so simple to put great distances between
family members, it gets too easy for us to all but forget each other. Hopefully, this web
site can help to prevent some of that.
After all, in the end, as in the beginning,
what really matters?
I have included below, a feedback form to make it easier for you to let me know your thoughts.
I welcome suggestions and can be reached here
I hope you like the site. MC